my head was spinning. am i a liberal, a conservative? i can't lie. this political schizophrenia is deeply confusing. so we decided maybe we will take the weekend off, decide which side we fall on, decide who we are going to vote for or you know what? maybe i'll just keep on doing what i've been doing, day in and day out, taking the criticism and the chips where they may fall. thanks so much for watching. tonight, mitt and taxes. romney finally releases his 2011 tax return. did he pay more taxes to win more votes? while the president's on the attack over that 47% gaffe. tonight, i will ask newt gingrich of the gop and martin o'malley. plus, go away. no, i mean that politely but why brat pack idol andrew mccarthy says leaving america is the best thing that could happen to many americans. >> i think most of our political decisions are all based on fear and i think if americans traveled, they would see that the world is much different

place than they're led to believe it is. and they're split down the middle just like america. one's republican and one -- actually, it's quite hard to work out what the other one is. big and rich on their music and their politics. >> we debate about as tough as any two guys can, but we end it always with a cold beverage. and a moment i never expected. or craved. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, the race for the white house by the numbers. mitt romney releases his 2011 tax return which shows he paid an effective tax rate of 14.1%. meanwhile, president obama continues to hammer him on his 47% gaffe about americans who, in his words, believe they are victims. >> nobody believes that anyone's entitled to success in this country.

we don't believe the government should be helping people who refuse to help themselves. but we do believe in something called opportunity. we believe in a country where hard work pays off. where responsibility's rewarded. where everybody gets a fair shot and everybody's doing their fair share, and everybody plays by the same rules. that's the country we believe in. that's what i believe in. that's why i'm running for a second term as president of the united states. >> president obama today. joining me now, a man with a unique perspective on all of this, newt gingrich disagrees with the president on just about everything and of course, he ran against mitt romney and joins me now. mr. speaker, welcome back. how are you? >> good to be with you. i have to say, given that sound bite, i thought barack obama sounded like a conservative republican. that was a great series of sentiments. i agreed with every single one of them. i just wish his policies were there. >> if he's reunited the whole of america, including you, this is a good step forward, isn't it? >> that's right. well, he is rhetorically terrific.

unfortunately, his policies were almost exactly the opposite of his speech. but it was a very good speech. he clearly has learned something from bill clinton recently, because he now knows how to sound like he's a conservative american even if his policies are very left wing. >> do you believe that presidential candidates should be held accountable to their words? do you think they should live up to their rhetoric? >> well, ideally, sure. i think the people have an obligation to try to communicate clearly and if you don't communicate clearly, how can you possibly have representative government. i think unfortunately, we're in a pattern where all too often, people use a lot of words and we're also caught up in a world where 16, 18, 19 hours a day of coverage, so if somebody does make a mistake, for example, president obama does happen to get caught by an open mike promising the russians concessions after the election, these kind of things happen all the time to i think every candidate and the result is kind of a microemphasis on every single word in a way that would not have been true before the age of instantaneous media.

>> the reason i asked you, there's a clip here from mitt romney earlier sent to abc news. listen to this. >> i have paid all the taxes required by law. i don't pay more than are legally due and frankly, if i had paid more than are legally due, i don't think i would be qualified to become president. i think people would want me to follow the law and pay only what the tax code requires. >> that was quite a statement there. if i paid more than i was legally due to pay in taxes, i don't think i would be qualified to become president. now, the reason that's fascinating today is he's released his 2011 tax return in full, and he came over the 13% tax payments that he said he had always paid above, but he only did that by not deducting all his charity donations, which of course meant he contradicted his pledge. he was not paying the tax he

should have paid so by his own words, he is no longer qualified to be president, is he, mr. speaker? >> well, if we're going to apply that standard, joe biden has to resign this evening because he has said enough different goofy things over time that you couldn't possibly remain vice president. look, i think it's fascinating, i looked at the numbers on the way here. romney paid about 14% in income tax. he donated over 10% to charity. that means his effective combination as a citizen of both what he voluntarily gave away and what he paid to the government is about a quarter of what he earned. i would be very curious to look at the number of other people's income taxes and see what percent they give away and i think it's a good thing for romney, apparently he's done this his whole life, to have a very substantial donation process for charities, for his church, and for things he wants to do voluntarily as a citizen. that's also a kind of self-tax to keep civilized society moving. >> the polls are pretty neck and neck at the moment and even

though he's had a few gaffes, the news cycle as you said, is so rapid these days, you can move on quite quickly. but if he's going to seal the deal, mitt romney, and actually win this election, what's he got to do now? >> i think he's got to do two things and i think they're pretty clear but pretty hard. one, he's got to just slow down, focus on a handful of issues. for example, his american energy independence plan which has about 86% support among the american people. he's got to get back to big changes that would really matter, and then second, when he walks in to debate obama, he's got to be as tough with obama as he was with me in florida. he has got to stand up, he's got to be very firm and very aggressive, and the country's got to look in and say you know, this is a guy who could be president, he's tough enough, he's clear enough, i get it. he's not in a competition to be likeable. he's in a competition to be capable. we need somebody who can turn america around. we need him to convince us that

a romney recovery is better than an obama stagnation. unless he can do that, i don't care how much effort they spend trying to make him likeable, it won't work. >> what is extraordinary to many impartial observers is that you take a state like nevada, it has the highest unemployment rate, 12.1%, and yet barack obama's lead in the polls is actually increasing. that's almost inconceivable, an incumbent president should be stretching ahead in a state where 12.1% of the people have lost their jobs. how can that be happening? that must be a failure by the romney campaign, isn't it? >> yeah. i would have to tell you i think that's almost inconceivable. i think it is amazing, you've had about two solid weeks of the media piling on in every possible way, starting with their overcoverage of the democratic convention which they were oohing and ahhing about at a level that's kind of silly. their deliberate avoidance of how bad obama's acceptance speech was.

then you get into the middle eastern problems where there's another wave of piling on. then of course, there's this 47% statement which is i think not accurate and was not a very clever thing to say. romney's had a bad couple weeks. the underlying reality is gasoline is dramatically higher than it was when obama was elected. the debt is so high, obama wouldn't even say the number the other night on "letterman "which was amazing. conservative republican has shown as much ignorance about the national debt as obama did on "letterman" it would have been a four-day story. instead it wasn't noticed at all. part of this is the romney people haven't gotten used yet to the fact that in a general election, if you're the conservative, you are running against a headwind all day every day and you've got to just stick to your guns, be very clear about what you're going to do and not let the media distract you. >> mr. speaker, i hope he's watching tonight. some wise words as always. thank you for joining me. >> good to be with you. now we will turn to the other side. joining me more on the big story is one of the democratic party's

rising stars, maryland governor martin o'malley. how are you, governor? >> well, piers. how about you? >> very well. how are you reacting to mitt romney's tax returns which have landed this friday afternoon? >> well, i think it's about time but it's really only part of the story. i can't imagine how in the remaining 48 days of this race that he's going to be able to get away with not revealing at least as many years as he asked paul ryan to reveal in order for him to make an informed judgment as to whether or not paul ryan was fit to be a vice presidential candidate so i think it also shows the degrees of the amount of water that he's been taking on, especially given some of the comments about other americans that perhaps don't earn as much as he does. >> right. but i mean, the guy gave $4 million to charity last year. absolutely staggering amount, isn't it? >> yeah. it's great. if you were one of the charities that received it.

>> what do you mean by that? >> i don't know. i mean, i think that a man who is a multimillionaire and has seen his wealth rise by great amounts over the last few years of being a huge beneficiary of the bush tax cuts that benefited the wealthiest of americans, i think it's probably a good thing that he gives to charity and indeed, he has the wherewithal to do that. >> he's also, he's paid all the taxes that legally he's required to do and his campaign have made that very clear today. that goes back over the last ten years as well. what exactly is the problem here? is there anything ethically wrong with what he's been doing? >> i think the bigger issue about the failure to release his tax returns, he must know that most americans would react with some horror at the degree to which he's used tax avoidance schemes and cayman island bank accounts and the like to avoid paying the full amount of taxes

that he should. otherwise, he would have released it before now. >> let me challenge you on that. >> sure. >> i might have a little snipe at him because i pay an awful lot more tax because i pay more income tax here but the guy, most of his tax is in the form of capital gains on investments, not income tax. and i just don't sense actually that the american people are that exercised -- >> but piers, there's a huge imbalance that has occurred when it comes to an american economy that's actually growing and strengthening the middle class. there has been a tremendous redistribution of the nation's wealth to the wealthiest 1% of our citizens. now, mitt romney is one of those who believes that america works best when the wealthiest are making more and more, whether it's because of investments, capital gains or whathave you. the rest of us believe that the measure of whether or not our

country's moving forward is whether or not we're creating more opportunities and strengthening and growing the ranks of our middle class. >> why should the american public re-elect a president under whose tenure unemployment remains at 8.2%, staggeringly high amount. the national debt has risen by $5 trillion, to $16 trillion. gas prices have doubled. the balance sheet against barack obama on the financial economics of this country are pretty damning. >> well, i believe the people are smart and i believe that people fundamentally are not gullible and indeed, i think the polls show overwhelmingly that most of us understand that the wrecking of our economy was the result of policies that were inflicted upon us during the bush years. we've now had 30 months in a row of positive private sector job growth. foreclosures are now lower than they were before president obama took office. and while we still have a lot of

work to do, we are headed in a much better direction than we were the day he took that oath of office. >> governor o'malley, thank you as always for joining me. i appreciate it. >> thank you, piers. coming up next, battleground america. tearing apart the red meat of romney's tax returns. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan,

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what's the effective rate i've been playing? it's probably closer to the 15% rate than anything because my

last ten years, i've -- my income comes overwhelmingly from investments made in the past rather than ordinary income or rather than earned annual income. i got a little bit of income from my book but i gave that all away, and then i get speaker's fees from time to time but not very much. >> mitt romney talking about his taxes back in january. we learned a lot more today when he released his 2011 returns. what does all this mean for the campaign? joining me cnn political contributor hillary rosen, "times" editor henry padgett. henry, let me start with you. you studied these figures. does he get a pass, mitt romney? seems to me just looking at them, anyone that gives $4 million to charity in one year, you can hardly accuse him of milking the system too much, can you? >> that's right. that's impressive. he's been very generous, given a lot away. certainly it could have been worse if they had to say look, there were three years where he paid no taxes. that would have been a monstrous story.

on the other hand, 14% tax, 20% tax rate, vastly below what a normal person would be paying on ordinary income and part of what romney has done so effectively has been effectively to shelter his income as investments and pay a much lower tax rate. >> can you do that if you're a very wealthy guy or woman? is that the bottom line? >> that's the real message when you dig into the tax returns that have been released, the tremendous sophistication and expense required to effectively avoid taxes as well as he has. that's not available to everybody in the country. >> henry rosen, what do you make of this? >> i think henry's right. you know, romney's tax return looks somewhat alien to the average person, with multiple pages and it's got foreign earnings and it's got tax shelters in bermuda and the like, so i think the key issue for mitt romney isn't whether he's generous. the key issue for mitt romney is whether he really understands what the average person goes through and i think that he's

sort of written himself off and actually being able to sell himself on a platform of lowering taxes and helping america because he was so disparaging of 47% of the american people who in effect also lower their taxes by being either in the military or getting an earned income tax credit or having mortgage interest on their house. you know, so taking sort of the few deductions available to the real middle class, you know, he can't say well, we're just going to lower taxes on wealthy people and then attack folks who try and get a little bit of tax benefit themselves. i think he ruined this issue for himself. >> let me turn to katie. put up a stoic defense for me of mitt romney and his taxation. >> a stoic defense. how about if i just give you some of the numbers here. in 2011, the romneys donated 30% of their income to charity, $4 million. i take a little bit of issue

with you saying that he's gaming the system when he could have deducted $4 million in charitable donations. >> hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. no, no, no, no. you have pressed the wrong button there. we all know the reason that he hasn't deducted that extra money. if he had deducted it in 2011, he would have fallen below the 13% threshold and would have therefore exposed himself as having told a large porky pie. so we're not stupid. he did this for political expediency. of course, the irony is he ends up contradicting himself about the a taxes he paid. >> your problem is he donated more to charity to pay a lower tax rate? that doesn't make a lot of sense. >> if he hadn't said the 13% threshold existed for all his returns, he would have done what anybody else would have done and claimed those extra charitable donations as deductions. anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done that is living in

cuckoo land. >> mitt romney has paid on average in the past 20 years a 20% effective tax rate and the person who is telling lies here is harry reid who is eating his words tonight because he went on the senate floor and accused mitt romney of not paying any taxes in the past ten years. guess what? he's paid taxes, state and federal, for the past 20 years. in the past 20 years he's given on average 40% of his income to the government, to charity and to his church. >> i think that's a very good point. let me go to henry rosen. that is a very good point. doesn't harry reid have to stand up now and issue a public apology to mitt romney? >> my guess is harry reid would feel better if he actually saw the returns instead of a letter from a bunch of accountants swearing that mitt romney paid taxes. >> you're saying the accountants are lying? >> no. i'm just saying i'm not sure that harry reid is feeling too contrite about this until mitt romney actually shows what he's done. >> i think -- stop for one moment.

i think he should be feeling contrite. i don't think it's good enough for harry reid, who stands up with all the power of the senate behind him, and basically says mitt romney paid no tax, fact, when it turns out to be an absolute load of baloney. i don't look at these figures and feel outraged. >> i'm not sure that we need to feel outraged at mitt romney's personal situation. i agree with katie, he's extraordinarily generous giving all that money to his church. what i think we should feel outrage is sort of the double standard by which he's operating now and saying that -- this goes back to the point that henry made thoughtfully which is that he, you know, has a huge amount of advantages because of how he earns his money, as investments rather than, you know, working in the fields or plowing in a manufacturing plant, and how he earns his money favors his tax status, and that is what's not fair right now for so many people because he himself is criticizing those who are paying

a lower rate based on their deductions. i think that's the outrage. >> let me go back to katie. i will come to you, henry, in a sec. katie, on that point, there are two different issues here. one is his tax returns in which i think he gets a reasonable pass, actually, but the 47% thing i felt was terrible for mitt romney. it showed a kind of arrogance, showed a lack of understanding of who these people were that he was talking about, many of them his voters in red states that would vote for him quite happily, and i thought also it showed a really kind of rich man's detachment from the real world. talking about people being victims in the way that he did, very sneering, very condescending. you must admit that was a bad, bad moment for mitt romney. >> i actually don't think it was a bad moment for mitt romney and i think that his tax returns, the release of them in full, i think that actually it shows that this is a man who has donated over $50 million in charity and paid taxes to the

government throughout his lifetime so therefore, he does have concern for the poor. he does have concern for the 47% who is dependent on some government programs. he's paid into the system and therefore, he does understand that. but i want to go back to something hillary said really quickly. she said harry reid might be more interested in looking at these tax returns if he saw them in full. well, the irs commissioner came out with a statement saying mitt romney and the romneys together have fulfilled their duties as taxpayers and abided by the law. so to accuse him of somehow hiding something in these tax returns, even though they haven't released them in full, they have released summaries of the past 20 years, i think is just not fair. >> well, let's just hold that thought. let's have a little break, come back and talk more about this. it's really got our hackles going. we have to try to work out who is right. ♪ ♪

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back with me now, cnn political contributor hillary rosen, katie pavlich. henry, you were about to respond to katie. i would imagine not in an

entirely complimentary manner. so fire away. >> look, i think that we can all stipulate that mitt romney gave a lot of money to charity. but he also earned a lot of money. i think what we have seen over the years is that the policies that mitt romney holds for himself, he doesn't hold for other people and i think when we look at his tax plan, that's a pretty good place to start. so the only difference between mitt romney's tax plan and the president's tax plan, everybody wants to lower effective taxes for people in the middle class, but mitt romney also wants to give the wealthy an additional tax break. when you look at a guy who is only paying 13% to 14% a year, it's hard to imagine, and those kind of deductions are available to most wealthy people, why drain the federal budget more, why cut education, why cut health care, why cut so many important things to give more guys like mitt romney a tax break. that's what his policy does. >> i actually think that's a pretty valid point.

i think the one thing that i do not detect the average american man and women on the street is calling out for more tax breaks or increasing the period of tax breaks for the wealthiest people in america. people like mitt romney are absolutely fine. they don't need any more help. if anything, looking at these tax returns, he could pay quite a lot more tax. he's clearly got so much income, he's giving away $4 million a year to charity. that's way more than he normally has. he's got lots of disposable income. doesn't need more help from america's financial system. how do you think this plays out for the election? >> i think his entire economic plan has been based on the idea that we have to give more money to the job creators, the investors and the entrepreneurs and that is people like mitt romney. but you look at the tax returns, you see how much money there is already, what is more money going to do. the problem in the economy in the u.s. right now actually is not an investor problem, it is a demand problem. it's that the middle class

doesn't have enough money. so if you're going to give someone a tax cut, great. go to the middle class. there's certainly no evidence actually that tax cuts really help the economy. >> in fact, often the reverse is true. >> that's right. but if they're going to give a tax cut with the idea that's going to stimulate the economy, then give it to the middle class, people who need it and will spend it because romney will not spend all of it. >> what we have then is a clear line of demarcation for this election, don't we? people can now make a real choice between the romney/ryan way to go and the obama way to go. >> absolutely. i think going back to the tax returns, the other issue is that don't forget that mitt romney's father came out and said look, any politician should release 12 years of returns. so that was part of what started -- >> he made his vp candidate that he was vetting release ten themselves. >> you want to see it. so now we have the high level details but the thing is if we got the returns, we did get it and even if everything was defensible legally, you would

find that mitt romney has likely taken advantage of some of the most outrageous tax loopholes in the system. it would be great if he were to come out and say the first thing i'm going to do is eliminate these loopholes that helped make me incredibly rich because they're ridiculous but he won't say i'm going to eliminate these loopholes because people will react negatively. >> final word, katie. you haven't spoken this segment. a very, very quick answer, please. do you ever wish mitt romney was worth about $300 million less, that he was like a regular guy with a regular income? maybe worth $3 million? >> no. i don't. because you know what? the reason why mitt romney can donate so much to charity and effectively help people through private enterprises and not through a bloated federal government is because he has a lot of money. if mitt romney was worth $1 billion, i would be happy with it. >> katie, henry, hillary, thank you all very much. i can't think of a better country music duo to follow that debate than the following. big and rich. coming after the break.

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my next guests are side by side in the country music charts but when it comes to politics they couldn't be further apart. they're big and rich, close friends and polar opposites, one liberal, one conservative. >> whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. >> yes? >> where you coming from? how do you know that? >> are you or are you not? >> that's a lot to assume. >> we'll come to it in a minute. haven't started the interview yet. >> we're from the great state of texas, a man from virginia -- >> mr. rich has done the show before. you clearly haven't. this is my gig, my stage and i will finish the introduction. >> okay. okay. finish your introduction. >> after going their separate ways for several years, they're back together, musically with a new album, "hillbilly jedi."

they join me now. welcome, gentlemen. >> okay, now, whoa, whoa, whoa. where do you get off? >> let me ask you a direct question. are you or have you ever been a liberal? >> i don't know what that is. >> that may cause the confusion. >> what i know is i'm a farm boy raised in virginia to a dad who was a hard-working man and a mother who taught me music and gave me great lessons in life, and i feel like the sky's our ceiling, the ground is our floor and the world is one big happy home. we ought to just love everybody. how about that? yeah! >> there's no room for that kind of thing in this world. >> people say that about john and i constantly and we debate about as tough as any two guys can, but we end it always with a cold beverage -- >> are you a conservative? >> yes, i'm a conservative. >> would you categorize him as more of a liberal? >> i would categorize kenny as

an independent. >> i like the word statesman. >> do you vote? >> yes. absolutely. i think everybody should vote. >> who do you vote for normally? >> i have always voted for the best person. the one that moved me, that i felt would inspire me, would inspire everything else around me. >> i feel we're getting off on the wrong footing here. >> hold on. hold on. hold on. you look like you need a hug. >> piers needs a hug. >> why do i feel i'm losing control of this interview? >> ladies and gentlemen, piers morgan receives a hug. my god, is that the first time anyone's hugged you in your life? >> is it time for a commercial break? he cries out desperately. let's talk politics. i want to talk to you about this for a moment because the interesting part of your dynamic i think is the fact that you do disagree about politics. you're not afraid to express opinions. parking who you actually vote for to one side, what are the issues you really are divided over, would you say?

>> i can tell you the issues that -- we tour like crazy, 60 some odd cities this year, all over the united states, so the people that come to our shows, what's really great about making music is 20,000 people out there, it's not a political crowd. these are music lovers so you got every walk of politics out there. what we're hearing across the board is i'm going to vote for whoever i think can get my job back. just these real basic principles that people i think are firing on right now is how do i get my job back, what gets our country back on track, how do we make this a better situation. i think to kenny's point, you got two completely different ideologies as to how to do that. everybody knows that. barack obama's got his way of doing it. romney's proposing a different way to do it. everybody's in the middle going okay, what are we going to do. i actually think people that voted for obama are really being hardcore with him about where he's coming from and people that voted for republicans in the past are going i don't know, i

got to really take a look at this. to be honest with you, i'm ill, ill and wary of politics. to turn on the tv -- >> we agree. we agree. >> it just almost gives me a headache to think about turning it on. i'm just weary of it. i think americans in general are, no matter what your affiliation. honestly, i can't stand most of them regardless of the party. >> you can take subjects that you would think would start out as john and i are completely far apart, and then once we start discussing it, then you find out how much honestly we both kind of are saying the same thing. >> let's talk about guns, because you, i am guessing from what i've read and heard about you, are pretty pro the gun lobby. you believe in americans' rights to bear arms. >> that's the second amendment. >> i get it. i get it. i respect the constitution and the second amendment. i respect the right of an american to defend themselves in their own homes. i don't respect the right of americans to go in a movie theater and blow people away -- >> absolutely not. who respects that?

that's not a right to do that. it's a crime. >> if you don't do anything to tighten the laws -- >> i would liken that to an underage person that scores some alcohol and drinks a fifth of vodka, gets behind the wheel of a car and drives over a bunch of people and kills them. you going to outlaw alcohol and cars? >> i find that a fatuous argument. >> i was 16 years old before i knew my name wasn't go get wood. if it wasn't for a .22, we wouldn't have ate. >> as a guy who has a 22 month old son and 11 month old son, if a guy ever breached my home and came in, i would be unloading on them. >> you would shoot them dead? >> absolutely. i would unload on them out of protecting my family, protecting what's most important to me. it's my right, it's my duty as their daddy to protect them from evil and violence. >> how do you stop the kind of thing we see -- >> understand me, i will never apologize for that, for defending my family, ever. >> i hear this from a lot of

americans. >> i don't know how there's a debate. >> they tell me keep your limey brit nose out of it. >> i'm glad you brought it up. there are things out there like that massacre in colorado that i don't care what your politics are, what your views are on anything, you shake your head at the inhumanity of what that is. and so this song that we have out called "that's why i pray" talks about all the things that we're talking about right now, how off the chart they are. as human beings you can't even get your head wrapped around it. it's so big that all you can do is pray for better days and the power of prayer is real. we believe in it, we pray, we pray for better days and hope that other people do, too. that's what this song that's out right now is about. that's why we're talking to you. this song has taken off across america because of the message of it. because exactly what you're talking about. >> your new album, "hillbilly jedi." i have no idea what you were on when you came up with that title. >> you know what a hillbilly is?

>> i know what a hillbilly is. i never met a hillbilly jedi. guys, been a pleasure. thanks for the hug and the kiss. coming up, from brat pack to backpack. why andrew mccarthy says traveling would teach americans a lot about the world. [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not approved for children under 18. people taking maois or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing skin or eyes. tell your doctor about all your medicines,

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so one night i got really high on this cheap malt liquor and i pledged my love to her. next day she ran off with a bass player named ringo. so i turned in my bongos for an underwood typewriter. >> on which you will type your way to becoming one of the most important writers in america. >> i wouldn't hold your breath. >> that's andrew mccarthy in "saint elmo's fire." another side of this hollywood actor and director, he's also an award winning travel writer. his first book is titled "the long way home, one man's quest for the courage to settle down." he joins me now. andrew, welcome. >> thank you, nice to be here. >> do you hate being part of that brat pack from that era? something that's dogged you for years afterward? >> i did when it came out, sure, because i remember where i was when i heard the term the first time and i was like oh, no, oh,

no. but it's had a much longer shadow than i ever would have thought. now it's become, you know, a term of affection, sort of become this iconic thing now. at the time it was pretty much a pejorative term. >> did you ever make up with rob lowe, like dean, sammy, frank, you all hang out together? >> go to vegas for the weekend, yeah. what happens there. i run into the guys but not often. i live here, i live a different life. occasionally but not often. i ran into jon crier, first time in 20 years. >> really? what did you say to each other? >> pretty in pink, huh, dude? like yeah. who would have thunk it, 25 years later. >> you ever party with charlie sheen? >> i never met charlie sheen. no. a lot of the brat pack i never met. i haven't met a lot of my brat pack buddies. >> what i like about you is that you have this sort of weird double life. on the one hand you have this brat pack actor guy that you remember, then i found out this whole different andrew mccarthy

and you're kind of this weird, if you don't mind the expression, loner, you're like disappearing, going off for months, years, traveling around the world. it's not a very american thing to do. 17% of americans never leave the country. most of those that do just go to mexico or canada, as you point out. you don't. you're one of those guys that gets out there. why do you do that? what's in it for you? what drives you? >> well, it first started happening sas a reaction to all that stuff you were just talking about. i was much more comfortable in my own skin a lone than that pack and media stuff, so i started traveling and was comfortable there. >> you quote the famous mark twain line. a brilliant line, travel is safe of bigotry. >> americans don't travel because they are afraid. i think america is a great country, it's my soapbox.

a great, wonderful country, but fearful country. political decisions are based in fear and if americans traveled, the world is a much different place than they think it is, and we're very insular. >> did it change your perspective of america too? >> the more i traveled the world, the more i realized america is a great place and most places love america and americans. they often don't agree with politics, but very welcoming to us as individuals. a lot of intelligent, smart people, and i would invite friends to travel with me. no. that was a quick no. travel say habit. travel obliterated fear in my life. and i had an experience on the road that jolted me into realizing, wow, i react always out of fear. in any decision i make out of

fear is generally a bad one. >> you are getting remarried to dolores, been together four years, have a daughter together and in typical andrew mccarthy style, you got an a plane to patagonia. >> in fairness, i had to write for a magazine, but i tend to suffer, i love you, i got to go syndrome, it's not you, it's me. and the book is trying to come to terms, i know i love you and wanted to be connected to you, and part of me really wants to go there, and that question of how do we come to terms with intimacy and partnership and that stuff and that's what i aaddress in the book, and it's like this internal journaly that plays out in pat goena and kilimanjaro. >> what did you learn about yourself? >> i learned you can't really reconcile the two. i can be, yeah, i love you, but i still got to go there, and

that's okay. >> your publisher, said andrew charts his passage from ambivalence to confidence, from indid i difficultyity and recklessness to acceptance and a deeper understanding of the internal conflicts of his life. >> when i'm away i solve my questions in life by traveling. >> i'm not good at sitting around, having coffee and talking about things. >> you are better with strangers. >> strangers tell me extraordinary things. at home, you construct safe patterns, to keep yourselves insulated. but when you are out there, no protection from yourself. i find it extraordinarily naked experience. i don't find travel escape. >> is dolores bracing herself for the next dash to the airport? waking up, every morning, is he still here? >> i come back from some trips, jesus, we're just getting rid of him. >> does he accept you are a

nomad? >> yeah, i think to a large degree. i mean, she knows i love her and that's part of who i am, part of the package. that's the deal. and the best version of me. i come home better than when i left, always. >> andrew, thank you very much. congrats, because apparently you just won your fourth lowell thomas award, a very prestigious award, and your book, available now. nice to meet you. >> you too. >> we'll be right back. humans -- even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why, at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com.

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yesterday we announced the top ten cnn heroes of 012. each of them receive $50,000 and shot for cnn hero of the here. here is anderson cooper to show you how you get to decide who that perch will be. >> now that we've announced the top ten heroes of 2012, i want to show you how you vote for cnn heroes of the year. it's very easy. this is the main page of cnnheroes.com. you will see all top ten cnn heroes, each receive $50,000 and a shot at becoming cnn heroes of the year. here is how you vote for your favorite. i'll randomly click on razia jan over here. you can read about her work

providing free education to girls in rural afghanistan. once you are ready to pick the person who inspired you the most, click vote, which is in red right over here, a new page comes up, shows you all top ten cnn heroes, choose the person you want to vote for. and here, leo mccarthy, his photo shows up under your selection, then enter your e-mail over here and enter the security code and click on the red box right here that says vote. vote up to ten times every day with e-mail address and through facebook and rally your friends by sharing your choice on facebook over here or on twitter, and, remember, vote from your computer, your phone, your tablet, pretty much any mobile device for the browser, go to cnnheroes.com and we'll reveal the winner during an all-star tribute. that promises to inspire.